Today we're taking our first look at AMD's new Zen 5 processors, starting with the Ryzen 7 9700X, their latest 8-core / 16-thread CPU designed to replace the 7700X.
AMD Ryzen 7 9700X Review: Zen 5 Arrives
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veLa
Posts: 1,257 +1,000
Wow, this is incredibly disappointing, I was either going to pick this up or the 7800X3D for a platform upgrade from 5800x. I was waiting to see how this compared since I do more on my PC than just game. I guess this won't be bringing down the 7800X3D price either. Now I'm almost considering waiting to see what Intel has to offer.
It was known a while (since laptop models of Zen 5) that AMD reduced low-bit vectorization performance and in exchange they increased scalar performance and high-bit vectorization performance (AVX3), this games and mybe some of the other media benchmarks are likely using these low-bit vectorization instructions (all between SSE and AVX2), given that games are media applications and that all instructions from SSE to AVX2 are media oriented, and given that games can't afford to use AVX3 since those are not available everywhere, developers of these games (and media applications) used these low-bit vectorization instructions to speed up the media operations, but since the clock rates of the 2 processors are the same, the gap in performance in media applications between Zen 4 and Zen 5 probably reflects this design choice for Zen 5: the message is: use AVX3 or get out (scalar) (aka: this processor is not intended for existing media applications, it's intended only for applications developed for AVX3). I belive if someone was to run a AVX3 application would be see a big performance improvement compared to Zen 4
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WhiteLeaff
Posts: 564 +1,033
Wow... That doesn't make any sense. Perhaps today's games simply aren't optimized for Zen5, but in any case this performance doesn't match what you'd expect from a design with so many changes.
Looking forward to seeing Chips and Cheese come up with some explanation for this, obviously there's some bottleneck in the architecture, perhaps the insistence on not increasing the L3 cache (to justify the X3D line?).
Looking forward to seeing Chips and Cheese come up with some explanation for this, obviously there's some bottleneck in the architecture, perhaps the insistence on not increasing the L3 cache (to justify the X3D line?).
adisoftcafe
Posts: 62 +39
Inthenstus
Posts: 182 +269
But… running RAM at 6000 is considered overclocking and would void warranty? But it’s the sweet spot? Wut..
Inthenstus
Posts: 182 +269
One very easy explanation: Zen5 has increased L1 data cache to 48kB. Since Intel CPUs used 32kB L1 data cache from Core 2 (2006) to Sunny Cove (2019), many games were for obvious reasons optimized for 32kB L1 data cache. Tbh Intel's Cove series CPUs are still much worse in games than they "should be".
Zen5 is made for modern software. Most software tested are old ones.
Are the power draw numbers ok?
Derbauer and others have the 9700x at around 88W and the 7700x at around 144W in the CB MT test (around the same power draw as the 7800x3D). And with PBO at max the power draw doubles witha 20% increase in MT scores.
What happened to get such a big difference? Is it the motherboard or a bios difference? I generally trust Derbauer's numbers.
Derbauer and others have the 9700x at around 88W and the 7700x at around 144W in the CB MT test (around the same power draw as the 7800x3D). And with PBO at max the power draw doubles witha 20% increase in MT scores.
What happened to get such a big difference? Is it the motherboard or a bios difference? I generally trust Derbauer's numbers.
Interesting - I'm seeing reviews all across the board. HWCooling, for eg, shows the same results you do though they go more in-depth with testing non-gaming applications and show that there's something like a 20/30% increase in efficiency (ie slightly higher performance + slightly lower wattage). That leads overhead for PBO to ramp up in applications though this doesn't seem to translate to that much improvement in gaming performance.
Meanwhile, sites like TechPowerUp are showing massive increases in performance with the 9600X on PBO at/slightly under the 7900X with games at 4K when paired with a 4090. This makes me wonder if the variance between individual chips themselves is extremely wide, if there's something about the motherboard (BIOS/VRM/?) that may be limiting the processor, or something else.
Also for folks who saw this review and immediately want to jump on Intel - LOL, look up 'Intel degradation' and tell me if a slightly underwhelming processor model is the worst thing you can end up with.
Meanwhile, sites like TechPowerUp are showing massive increases in performance with the 9600X on PBO at/slightly under the 7900X with games at 4K when paired with a 4090. This makes me wonder if the variance between individual chips themselves is extremely wide, if there's something about the motherboard (BIOS/VRM/?) that may be limiting the processor, or something else.
Also for folks who saw this review and immediately want to jump on Intel - LOL, look up 'Intel degradation' and tell me if a slightly underwhelming processor model is the worst thing you can end up with.
My 5800X3D continues to be very relevant - another generation looks to be going by with little point in upgrading. The CPU market becoming more like the GPU market.
Neatfeatguy
Posts: 1,758 +3,314
I think a big issue for the 9700X is the limited power based on what W1zzard said in his conclusion:
Perhaps it's a design choice because they have plans for a 9800X to have a higher TDP limit to make it more enticing over the 9700X, but that's just a guess on my part.
Weird for sure, Phoronix came to the exact opposite conclusion, it's "truly impressive" according to their results.
https://www.phoronix.com/review/ryzen-9600x-9700x
https://www.phoronix.com/review/ryzen-9600x-9700x
Quick guess:
New BIOS or other motherboard?! Maybe "Intel Extreme Profile"
Is the power comsumption right, other site other numbers.
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-9700x/23.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-9700x/23.html
The chips were already running unlimited power in the previous review.
dangh
Posts: 1,362 +2,179
What's interesting, results are much better on Linux, so maybe it is about Windows support at this stage:
https://www.phoronix.com/review/ryzen-9600x-9700x/16
https://www.phoronix.com/review/ryzen-9600x-9700x/16
I am not sure why this article is so down on the 9700X. Looking at other reviews, they don't seem to share the same glum view. Is it a revolutionary CPU, nope. Is it worth the 22% price over 7700X, depends on your needs. Also, it will matter if the reduce power consumption matters or it if is easier to cool.
Looking at Tom's Hardware review data (I see them as reputable), this is what they got for the 9700X PBO compared to 7700X.
1080p = 21% (on par with the price increase)
1440p = 17% (a bit under achieving)
single-threaded = 10% (ouch)
multi-threaded = 47% (nice)
Looking at Tom's Hardware review data (I see them as reputable), this is what they got for the 9700X PBO compared to 7700X.
1080p = 21% (on par with the price increase)
1440p = 17% (a bit under achieving)
single-threaded = 10% (ouch)
multi-threaded = 47% (nice)
This doesn't match AMD's benchmarks. What's the disconnect?
https://www.techspot.com/images2/news/bigimage/2024/06/2024-06-02-image-20.jpg
https://www.techspot.com/images2/news/bigimage/2024/06/2024-06-02-image-20.jpg
Can't wait to read HardReset's cope, AMD pulling a scam as well.
Oh wait he did respond, in exactly the way I expected
Dude was going on for weeks on how Zen 5 was going to blow Intel's CPU's out of the water, with or without Intel's CPU's failing.
The reality being it even underperforms compared to cheaper options from AMD, where HardReset now copes saying everyone needs to step up their game because only AMD decided to focus on 'newer' CPU instructions that most games and software today in 2024 don't support.
It's like buying 10k USD 3D TV's when only a handful of applications were available for it, only for it to flop. There hardly is any point for any consumer to buy this card, the only one telling you to do buy it is the guy that just spent 10k on his useless 3D TV.
Oh wait he did respond, in exactly the way I expected
Dude was going on for weeks on how Zen 5 was going to blow Intel's CPU's out of the water, with or without Intel's CPU's failing.
The reality being it even underperforms compared to cheaper options from AMD, where HardReset now copes saying everyone needs to step up their game because only AMD decided to focus on 'newer' CPU instructions that most games and software today in 2024 don't support.
It's like buying 10k USD 3D TV's when only a handful of applications were available for it, only for it to flop. There hardly is any point for any consumer to buy this card, the only one telling you to do buy it is the guy that just spent 10k on his useless 3D TV.
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