Elon Musk says he will move X and SpaceX headquarters to Texas in response to California gender law

America being what it is, I would advise against that on purely pragmatic grounds. There will undoubtedly be some unfortunate children who go through the difficult and painful process due to one form of pressure or another, then in their late teens or early twenties realize it was not a good idea for them specifically, and those people will then sue the asses off the schools and government. There may even be some who are quite happy with the results, but broke, who will pretend to not be happy and hop on the compensation bandwagon.

wiyosaya said:

I don't like Musk. Not because someone told me to not like him. Myself, and others, are independent thinkers capable of independent thought - even though it seems you don't believe there are such people.

That you think people control our thoughts makes me wonder if there are any authoritarian figures in your cache of most revered people.

I don't care where he goes either. Musk has had some spectacularly bad business decisions. There's room for more in his life, and I don't doubt he will make more as he stumbles through his life.

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Yes because Elon Musk, one of the richest people on the planet, with enormously succesful EV and rocket/space exploration companies is "stumbling through life" because he made "spectacularly bad business decisions".
Riiiiiight.
Having independent thought is of course no guarantee such thought is intelligent.

Eflow said:

Often times these kids are opening up at school because their parents don't support them, or are even hostile towards LGBTQ concepts.

There is an infinite list of things students say and do at school that don't get communicated to parents, but red pockets of California created laws saying that children identifying as transgender and gay need to be reported to their parents. The chilling effect of that law is obvious. It is designed to keep children who fear their parents in line.

Should children forced to be vegan at home be reported to their parents if they eat meat at school lunch?

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The problem is that being trans is something completely different from being gay or any of the other things on your "infinite list". There's no surgeries and medications involved in being gay (or vegan). Being gay is simply about who you are attracted to. The whole trans thing is a completely different can of worms that teaches vulnerable, insecure young kids (the vast majority teenage girls with other existing mental issues like autism) they are "born in the wrong body".

It's a mental problem and it's a social contagion. It's no different from other types of body dysphoria. Kids with boulimia have the mistaken idea that they are too fat, and therefore harm themselves by stopping eating, or forcing themselves to vomit up any food they did eat. Of course, in reality they are the opposite of too fat, they are malnourished. It's often also a cry for attention.
Eating meat when your parents want you to be vegan isn't going to damage your health. Boulimia certainly will, if left untreated.
No one in their right mind would argue that we should "affirm" their (certainly very heartfealt) "true identity" as a fat person and keep their dangerous condition from their parents.

Yet this is how we are being forced to deal with gender dysphoria. As if there's some mysterious, gendered "true self" that can be "in the wrong body" and that once a person has figured out their "true self" and their "correct" gender, this has to be treated as sacred and unquestionable and as superseding biological reality.
It's a cult, nothing more, nothing less.

In the end the parents are still responsible for the children. It's not the school or the state's business to force parents to either accept or not accept their children for whatever reason.

NumberNine said:

Why does he care?

It's not like Elon Musk is going to send any of his spawn to a public school. He lives in bubble.

And more importantly, why do I even care enough to type this?

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So at the same time you are criticising him for supposedly "living in a bubble" AND for caring too much about wider society outside said bubble?

And then you're probably also one of those people who says things like "why doesn't Elon Musk use his money to end poverty?!"

Interesting mental gymnastics.

Squid Surprise said:

No one is undermining the family... the law is to protect children from parents who would beat them (or worse) if they come out as gay, transgender, etc...

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I just read the law, and it does not do that. It mainly changes two things... It gives power to the state to regulate what school employees are required to report to others regarding sexual orientation/gender expression, and it gives power to the employee to decide what they report to others regarding sexual orientation/gender expression in all other cases. That means if an employee was required to report sexual orientation/gender expression before, now they choose whether to out students' sexual orientation/gender expression to anyone that it's legal to do so. In other words, it takes power away from the parents if a school district required it and schools/school districts (which parents can choose) and puts it in the hands of the employee and the state.

...unless some school districts forbid employees from sharing this information from parents. I'm not sure if that's legal or if it's even being done anywhere in California, but the bill does nothing about this.

Squid Surprise said:

How does that help the children in legal custody of ignorant, abusive parents?

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This rationale is a very slippery slope, you can justify quite a lot with this line of reasoning. But employees shouldn't be able to take action to protect a child from their own parent if they have no evidence of being abusive, and if they are abusive then they shouldn't let it continue anyways as a school employee. They should be reporting them to child protective services instead. That is the place to protect children from their own families and it is heavily regulated for a reason. Just because a parent may disagree with gender expression doesn't make them abusive after all.

Endymio said:

A statement worth repeating. The state-based federation system is the one the Founders intended, not a all-powerful federal government enforcing homogenous polices across the nation.

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Yep, so much so that they made the federal government too weak the first time around. Then they basically got it right the second time around. It's also something that benefited me, and why I was able to move from a state that was mostly closed one year into the pandemic to one that was mostly open.

wiyosaya said:

I don't care where he goes either. Musk has had some spectacularly bad business decisions. There's room for more in his life, and I don't doubt he will make more as he stumbles through his life.

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That's a very good point. You pretty much have to own everything around you to lose the amount of money he has lost and still keep their job.
And now he is about to learn that pandering only works on people that are already in the cult of personality. The people he is trying to win over will NEVER buy his cars.

lonetac said:

yes but that doesnt allow folks to patronize you and talk down to you. Simply, it doesnt fit their agenda so it cant possibly be true.

You have to remember, most folks saying things as you describe are not capable of thinking for themselves and therefore this concept is completely out of their reasoning. Elon didnt tell them to think for themselves so how could they possibly do it?

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Wow.Got any more of that stuff you are smoking? That must be some really good stuff if it is creating hallucinations of Musk Godhood in your waking life.

Neatfeatguy said:

Elon can do what he wants. Those that don't like him because they're told not to like him will shun him and treat him like trash regardless of what he does.

I wouldn't care if he moved his companies to Australia. Hopefully he finds what he needs with this change and it turns out to be a good business decision, but only time will tell.

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"they're told not to like him" No I don't like the guy, because of all the things he's done like proposing to buy Twitter making the deal too good to refuse, then after the deal was done refused to pay for the deal he proposed while publicly blaming Twitter and making them out to be the bad guys. Then there is all the right to repair stuff with Tesla and filling Tesla's board of directors with personal friends and then giving himself a more than generous compensation package. Promising release dates for things that aren't possible in that time frame or in his control.

There are a bunch of reasons to leave California as a business owner and hiding it behind some law that doesn't affect him or all the kids he likely never sees since he's sleeping on the floor of every factory he owns and busy losing money on Twitter. If he knew he would make more money staying in California than moving to Texas, he would have never mentioned this law since there are plenty of other laws in California worth complaining about.

I wished the media would stop reporting anything Elon says. He's not the tech genius people make him out to be, he's just a businessman who's made a few great deals, he's not a role model and shouldn't be put on a pedestal.

scavengerspc said:

You pretty much have to own everything around you to lose the amount of money he has lost and still keep their job.

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That's a rather odd definition of "losing money". In less than a decade, Musk took Tesla from a bankrupt entity that had produced a half-dozen cars total, to a trillion-dollar firm and the largest EV maker on the planet. And while Tesla has dipped some in the last 18 months, it's dipped much less than over EV makers. Musk is still the only person on the planet able to sell EVs at a profit. Let that sink in. And his record at Paypal (world's most successful online payment processor at time of sale) and SpacX (world's most successful private space launch service) is equally impressive. Given four out of five startups fail without ever turning a profit, and not one in ten thousand even reaches a billion-dollar valuation, much less a trillion -- it's rather clear how impressive his record is.

Bobbydpue said:

No I don't like the guy, because of all the things he's done like proposing to buy Twitter making the deal too good to refuse, then after the deal was done refused to pay

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Rubbish. You and the rest of the Left turned on Musk the moment he began criticizing Twitter for their biased censorship policies. Pretty much every prominent businessman on the planet has made buyout offers, then altered or attempted to alter the terms of the deal during the process, usually with far less justification than Musk had. Yet you reserve your spiteful venom for Musk, for the same reason that a religious zealot can forgive crimes up to and including mass murder --- yet when a heretic challenges your religious beliefs, you immediately burn him at the stake.

Endymio said:

That's a rather odd definition of "losing money". In less than a decade, Musk took Tesla from a bankrupt entity that had produced a half-dozen cars total, to a trillion-dollar firm and the largest EV maker on the planet. And while Tesla has dipped some in the last 18 months, it's dipped much less than over EV makers. Musk is still the only person on the planet able to sell EVs at a profit. Let that sink in. And his record at Paypal (world's most successful online payment processor at time of sale) and SpacX (world's most successful private space launch service) is equally impressive. Given four out of five startups fail without ever turning a profit, and not one in ten thousand even reaches a billion-dollar valuation, much less a trillion -- it's rather clear how impressive his record is.

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Yeah man, Except for Twitter\X. Which has huge losses.
As for Musk himself. Personally. Per Forbes, he has lost $182 Billion since Nov 2021. Bloomberg says it closer to 200 billion. If I lost that big a percentage of my net worth I know I would fire myself and learn to break dance.

And to be fair, Tesla has not lost near as much as many dedicated EV only makers.
But really it's way too early, as the EV "revolution" is only 9 years old.
Look at Ford in the middle of the so-called EV downturn:

scavengerspc said:

Yeah man, Except for Twitter\X. Which has huge losses.

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You mean the Twitter that never turned a profit since founding? And Musk stated even before the purchase he wasn't buying Twitter for profits, but to help protect an open public forum.

scavengerspc said:

Look at Ford in the middle of the so-called EV downturn:

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You make my case for me. Yes, let's look at Ford:

CNN, 5/1/2024: "Ford just reported a massive loss on every electric vehicle it sold"

....Ford’s electric vehicle unit reported that losses soared in the first quarter to $1.3 billion, or $132,000 for each of the 10,000 vehicles it sold in the first three months of the year, helping to drag down earnings for the company overall...."

Ford is selling 10,000 EVs per quarter. Tesla is selling 40 times as many. As for the EV revolution "being only 9 years old" -- that revolution began when Tesla brought EVs to the masses. Ford made their first EV in -- wait for it -- the year 1913. Ford tried again in 1997 to 2003 ... and failed again. They're trying a third time now -- and, so far, failing miserably.

Again. Musk is the only person the planet who's figured out how to make EVs profitably.

Endymio said:

You mean the Twitter that never turned a profit since founding? And Musk stated even before the purchase he wasn't buying Twitter for profits, but to help protect an open public forum.


You make my case for me. Yes, let's look at Ford:

CNN, 5/1/2024: "Ford just reported a massive loss on every electric vehicle it sold"

....Ford’s electric vehicle unit reported that losses soared in the first quarter to $1.3 billion, or $132,000 for each of the 10,000 vehicles it sold in the first three months of the year, helping to drag down earnings for the company overall...."

Ford is selling 10,000 EVs per quarter. Tesla is selling 40 times as many. As for the EV revolution "being only 9 years old" -- that revolution began when Tesla brought EVs to the masses. Ford made their first EV in -- wait for it -- the year 1913. Ford tried again in 1997 to 2003 ... and failed again. They're trying a third time now -- and, so far, failing miserably.

Again. Musk is the only person the planet who's figured out how to make EVs profitably.

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I can't see if you're doing the neener, neener thing or stating the obvious. NOBODY is making money on EVs now except maybe Tesla. And I have said that many times.
My post history is there for everyone to see. And even at that means nothing when my comment was on the stocks and the numbers sold in the so-called EV downswing.

As far as twitter "never turning a profit", I will leave this, since you have an almost schizophrenic past of ignoring definitive proof and commenting on things nobody said:

scavengerspc said:

I can't see if you're doing the neener, neener thing or stating the obvious. NOBODY is making money on EVs now except maybe Tesla. And I have said that many times.

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So I'm confused. How do you reconcile "Musk is the only person in the world able to make a profit on EVs" with your earlier statement that "Musk should be fired"?

You're usually very level-headed on this topic; I fear your hatred of Musk is swaying your thought processes. Not only is Tesla managing to do what no other automaker has ever managed -- make EVs profitably -- but Musk is about to do for Tesla yet another thing that Ford, GM, Toyota, and VW have never managed: diversify. Already Tesla earns 20% of its revenues from products other than autos. At current growth rates, in just five years time, Tesla will earn the majority of its income from other market segments.

scavengerspc said:

As far as twitter "never turning a profit", I will leave this, since you have an almost schizophrenic past of ignoring definitive proof

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I'll dispute that statement -- and concede that Twitter has in the past turned a profit. The fact remains that it lost money in 2023. And 2022. And 2021. And 2020. So blaming Musk for that is specious, to say the least.

Endymio said:

So I'm confused

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We're shocked

Endymio said:

How do you reconcile "Musk is the only person in the world able to make a profit on EVs" with your earlier statement that "Musk should be fired"?

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Because of the fact that Tesla profits are falling fast, still.
Later in April, we saw the effect on Tesla's balance sheet. Profits fell by more than half, and profit margins slumped to just 5.5 percent, barely half the industry average.

Endymio said:

I'll dispute that statement -- and concede that Twitter has in the past turned a profit. The fact remains that it lost money in 2023. And 2022. And 2021. And 2020. So blaming Musk for that is specious, to say the least.

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And I will concede to that because I thought you meant that twitter never made a profit, but it looks like you meant under Musk. But it did before Elon.

wiyosaya said:

I don't like Musk. Not because someone told me to not like him. Myself, and others, are independent thinkers capable of independent thought - even though it seems you don't believe there are such people.

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May I ask how long have you been disliking him? Askin, because somehow before he took over Twitter (and in doing so enraged the liberal mobs who ran it) he was bigger then life, a universally revered figure who was seriously considered to be a real life Iron Man.
As somebody who's been calling his BS since day one I can assure you there was a great shortage of "independent thinkers" back in those days. But now hatin' on Musk seems very fashionable.

scavengerspc said:

in April, we saw the effect on Tesla's balance sheet. Profits fell by more than half, and profit margins slumped to just 5.5 percent, barely half the industry average.

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Oops! The "industry average" profit margin for EVs is sharply negative. You chose Ford as a beacon in the field, yet they're losing more than $130K per EV sold. For Ford to make a profit on the Mustang Mach E, they'd need to charge $175K to $200K each, not that base $41K.

Tesla's profits may have fallen during a world-wide EV downturn -- but Tesla remains the only company in the world making a profit on EVs. Ever.

scavengerspc said:

But Twitter [made a profit] before Elon.

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Intellectually dishonesty. In 18 years of operation, Twitter made a profit once only -- and was losing money for many years before Musk.

I intend to make you think logically on this. Tesla is the global leader in EVs. SpaceX is the global leader in space launch services. Paypal was -- when Musk sold it -- the global leader in online payment processors.

scavengerspc said:

Personally. Per Forbes, he has lost $182 Billion since Nov 2021. Bloomberg says it closer to 200 billion

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You're spreading disinformation. That article came in December 2022, when Tesla shares dipped to $113. They're now more than double: $239/share. Musk is, once again, the richest man the world.

wiyosaya said:

Wow.Got any more of that stuff you are smoking? That must be some really good stuff if it is creating hallucinations of Musk Godhood in your waking life.

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Im not sure what you are going on about here. I am supporting your original post and agree with you.

Nobody told me to dislike or like Musk. I made that decision on my own based on his actions and how he handles himself, conducts business and the things he says and does.

Godhood? huh? He is just a man. No different than myself. Im not the Elon bootlicker here.

Endymio said:

yet they're losing more than $130K per EV sold

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Oops! Please don't mention that again. I already said (again) I'm well aware about who is slumping in sales, and that segment of the auto industry as a whole, and have shown that Ford, among others are selling well or better. I also said "NOBODY is making money on EVs now except maybe Tesla."

Endymio said:

Tesla's profits may have fallen during a world-wide EV downturn -- but Tesla remains the only company in the world making a profit on EVs. Ever.

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You're doing it again. That is exactly what I said earlier. My exact quote:
"NOBODY is making money on EVs now except maybe Tesla."

Endymio said:

Twitter made a profit once only

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Again, exactly right, once. And the reason I posted that was because you said NOT even once. "Never", was your claim. Infact your words were:
"You mean the Twitter that never turned a profit since founding?"

Endymio said:

Tesla is the global leader in EVs. SpaceX is the global leader in space launch services. Paypal was -- when Musk sold it -- the global leader in online payment processors.

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Absolutely true, and while I see the dents, I never said it was not true.

Endymio said:

You're spreading disinformation. That article came in December 2022, when Tesla shares dipped to $113. They're now more than double: $239/share. Musk is, once again, the richest man the world.

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And I'm happy for him, and you, I guess. But I did say "since 2021"

Do you REALLY read the entire post you respond to?

zx8086 said:

May I ask how long have you been disliking him? Askin, because somehow before he took over Twitter (and in doing so enraged the liberal mobs who ran it) he was bigger then life, a universally revered figure who was seriously considered to be a real life Iron Man.
As somebody who's been calling his BS since day one I can assure you there was a great shortage of "independent thinkers" back in those days. But now hatin' on Musk seems very fashionable.

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It's well-known and verifiable that Musk did not invent the Tesla vehicles. When he bought Tesla, it was in the contract that he could put his name on all the patents - even though he did not invent them. I'll leave this as an exercise for you to verify on your own.

It's easy for "rich people" to pull the wool over the eyes of anyone who does not dig deeper into their background. The only reason Musk is "revered" is because, on paper, he's rich. People revere money and money blinds most people to everything else.

lonetac said:

Im not sure what you are going on about here. I am supporting your original post and agree with you.

Nobody told me to dislike or like Musk. I made that decision on my own based on his actions and how he handles himself, conducts business and the things he says and does.

Godhood? huh? He is just a man. No different than myself. Im not the Elon bootlicker here.

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I stand corrected.

wiyosaya said:

It's well-known and verifiable that Musk did not invent the Tesla vehicles.

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The phrase "it's well known" is used to present falsehoods and misinformation. At heart, an EV is a simple device, one invented more than a century ago. What sets Tesla apart are the innovations that Musk himself bet the firm on, innovations that, at the time, industry observers said were gambles destined to fail, e.g. the "gigapress" manufacturing technique and the "gigafactory" decision to produce their own batteries, rather than purchasing from a dedicated Li-Ion battery specialist firm.

Musk also made the highly controversial decision to "open source" all of Tesla's patents, allowing them to be used by other automakers. This was another gamble that the "experts" called insane at the time -- but yet again, it paid off in spades.

I don't recall anyone ever calling Musk a scientific or engineering prodigy. His genius lies in business entrepeneurship. Anyone can hire top-notch talent to spew out ideas like fireworks. Musk's acumen lies in recognizing the ones that have value -- and backing them to the hilt.

scavengerspc said:

You're doing it again. That is exactly what I said earlier. My exact quote:
"NOBODY is making money on EVs now except maybe Tesla."

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All the more reason Tesla -- rather than "firing him" as you suggest -- should pay Musk an unprecedented sum to keep him as CEO.

Luckily, Tesla agrees with you. The shareholders overwhelmingly voted to back the Board's decision, and restore Musk's $56B payout.

scavengerspc said:

And I'm happy for him, and you, I guess. But I did say "since 2021"

Do you REALLY read the entire post you respond to?

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Oops! You said "since Nov 2021" Musk has lost $182B. This is false. The figure was obtained by taking the Tesla stock HIGH at November 2021 and comparing it to the LOW on Dec 2022. The largest problem with that is it's no longer Dec 2022, and Tesla shares have more than doubled since then. And Forbes' story wasn't true even when printed, as it failed to account for the enormous increase in value that SpaceX has seen -- a private firm, but one that, if and when it goes public, will fetch at least $180B.